{"id":3377,"date":"2013-04-25T15:53:09","date_gmt":"2013-04-25T05:53:09","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/australiansforhonestpolitics.wordpress.com\/?p=3377"},"modified":"2019-04-13T23:24:15","modified_gmt":"2019-04-13T13:24:15","slug":"how-sales-dropped-the-ball-on-abbott","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/archive.nofibs.com.au\/how-sales-dropped-the-ball-on-abbott\/","title":{"rendered":"How Sales dropped the ball on Abbott"},"content":{"rendered":"<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\" width=\"500\">\n<p>Interview with <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/leighsales\">@leighsales<\/a> about to air on <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/abc730\">@abc730<\/a>. Good to chat about our Real Solutions plan for Australia <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/search?q=%23abc730&amp;src=hash\">#abc730<\/a> <a href=\"http:\/\/t.co\/nnHOYu2FGF\">pic.twitter.com\/nnHOYu2FGF<\/a><\/p>\n<p>&mdash; Tony Abbott (@TonyAbbottMHR) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/TonyAbbottMHR\/statuses\/326990975195029504\">April 24, 2013<\/a><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><script async src=\"\/\/platform.twitter.com\/widgets.js\" charset=\"utf-8\"><\/script><\/p>\n<p lang=\"en-AU\" style=\"text-align:left;\" align=\"CENTER\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">By <a href=\"http:\/\/australiansforhonestpolitics.wordpress.com\/peter-clarke\/\">Peter Clarke<\/a>,<\/span><\/p>\n<p lang=\"en-AU\" style=\"text-align:left;\" align=\"CENTER\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">April 25, 2013<\/span><\/p>\n<p lang=\"en-AU\" style=\"text-align:left;\" align=\"CENTER\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Late last year, Leigh Sales <a href=\"http:\/\/www.abc.net.au\/7.30\/content\/2012\/s3573785.htm\">interviewed Tony Abbott live on the 730 Report.<\/a> Sales was sharp and persistent, Abbott poorly prepared and struggling. Sales <a href=\"http:\/\/www.acma.gov.au\/webwr\/_assets\/main\/lib410172\/abs-abc_report_2872.pdf\">beat claims of bias<\/a>&nbsp;and <a href=\"http:\/\/www.abc.net.au\/news\/2012-12-01\/walkleys\/4402348\">won a coveted Walkley Award<\/a> for TV interviewing.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Naturally viewers were <a href=\"http:\/\/www.theage.com.au\/opinion\/politics\/its-on-again-abbott-gets-back-in-ring-with-730s-sales-20130424-2ien2.html\">relishing the prospect of a return bout<\/a>, and&nbsp;Sales and the program promoted the interview on social media. It now seems that if Abbott agrees to be interviewed on an ABC current affairs program it is a &#8216;get&#8217;. Because of the history and the ongoing tensions between the office of the opposition leader and the ABC, there is an additional expectation from the audience.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Unlike Sales&#8217; interviews with Prime Minister Gillard, there is no history between Sales and Abbott around key policy areas or even how they engage in these set-piece, contested, political interviews. Rather, each interview appears to be built from the ground up, as if it was the first one. Their rarity causes a fundamental problem in the continuity of enquiry.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">I first reviewed Sales&#8217; performance in a piece about <a href=\"http:\/\/australiansforhonestpolitics.wordpress.com\/2013\/03\/26\/anatomy-of-sales-v-gillard-interview\/\">her interview with Gillard<\/a> after she stared down Rudd to retain her leadership, in which I was quite critical of both participants.&nbsp;<\/span><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">I have long been an admirer of Sales, and cite her as one of the best we have. <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Or I used to. <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Something happened in that Gillard interview which diminished the natural and hard-won interviewing skills Sales had clearly demonstrated. She gleaned v<\/span><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">ery little useful insight or information for citizens. L<\/span><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">ast night\u2019s interview with Abbott was calmer and smoother than the Gillard one or Sales&#8217; last interview with Abbott, but, again, very little content of real value emerged.&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">In fact, the most troubling aspect of the interview last night was that Sales did not appear to be listening acutely enough to Abbott\u2019s answers. Alongside all the integrated skills and techniques in a top interviewer\u2019s toolkit, LISTENING remains the key attribute. Without it, the &#8216;hollow dance&#8217; becomes even more superficial.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">This Abbott interview was roughly the same duration as the Gillard one \u2013 just over thirteen minutes. It was (as was the Gillard interview) pre-recorded. And Abbott was not in the studio with Sales.&nbsp;<\/span><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Here is a brief analysis of <a href=\"http:\/\/www.abc.net.au\/7.30\/content\/2013\/s3744835.htm\">the interview<\/a> transcript.&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">In her set-up, Sales frames the interview as an enquiry into the Coalition\u2019s economic plan, stating that \u201cyour vote will boil down\u201d to your judgement on how well the Labor government handled the Global Financial Crisis and associated spending.&nbsp;<\/span><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Her opening remarks to Abbott followed that line until she ask the gift (for Abbott) question: <\/span><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><i>Are you asking the public to elect you on blind faith?<\/i><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">In my article on Sales&#8217; Gillard interview, I suggested that the interview never recovered from asking a broad diffuse and opinionated first question. Sales\u2019 opening gambit with Gillard:<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><i>After recent events, aren\u2019t Australians well within their rights to conclude that the Gillard Government is a dysfunctional mess that deserves to be consigned to opposition as soon as possible?<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Notice the similarity in form and approach? Gillard walked through the giant gap. So did Abbott.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Sales could have chosen, as her set-up promised, a specific, targeted first question around economic policy to stop Abbott being able to rely on the generalised, abstract discourse politicians favour to avoid the question and stay on message.&nbsp;<\/span><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">But Sales went for the flourish again, and it let her down, again.<!--more--><\/span><\/p>\n<div style=\"background:#ffff99;\"><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><strong>LEIGH SALES, PRESENTER:<\/strong> The economy is going to be one of the most important factors deciding this election, and in many ways your vote will boil down to whether you think Labor has done a good job of steering Australia through the Global Financial Crisis or whether you agree with the Coalition that Government spending has been excessive.<\/span><\/span><br \/>\n<span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Whoever wins the next election will be facing up to a possible decade of budget deficits, thanks to pressure on revenue and growing demands for government services, especially in health.<\/span><\/span><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">If the polls are to be believed, the Opposition Leader Tony Abbott is on track to be the next prime minister and he&#8217;ll be the one who has to manage the challenging budget situation.<\/span><\/span><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Mr Abbott joined me from Melbourne a short time ago.<\/span><\/span><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Tony Abbott, come September, you will most likely be the Prime Minister. You&#8217;ve so far released just a handful of policies and no broad economic plan. Are you asking the public to elect you on blind faith? <\/span><\/span><\/div>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">&nbsp;<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Abbott uses the well tried technique of first picking up, not on the question, but the implication in Sales\u2019 set-up of the likelihood of an Abbott government. This places a buffer between his overall answer and the thrust (however diffuse) of Sales\u2019 question. It also is part of a suite of constant messages, including this one &#8211; that Abbott and his team are \u201ctaking nothing for granted\u201d.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Then he answers the question obliquely by making the quite extraordinary claim that he is \u201cavailable every day\u201d (ironic in the context of his rare appearances at tougher interviews).<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Then Abbott throws up a mini-campaign style list of slogans. He carefully uses the very general, abstract form of words, \u201cshape and structure is very clear\u201d. <\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<div style=\"background:#ffff99;\">\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><strong>TONY ABBOTT, OPPOSITION LEADER:<\/strong> Well, Leigh, a couple of points. The first point is that I take nothing for granted. My team takes nothing for granted. We&#8217;re working very hard every day because we know that while this might be a pretty poor government, they&#8217;re clever at low politics, so we take nothing for granted. <\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">The second point I make is that I&#8217;m available every day. Very few days would go by without my being available to the public and we&#8217;ve put out our Real Solutions plan, we&#8217;ve put out the Strong Australia book, and while the NBN policy that we released a couple of weeks back is the first formal detailed policy of the election year, there are many specific policy commitments out there to abolish carbon tax, abolish the mining tax, reduce red tape by a billion dollars a year to stop the boats, to introduce a fair dinkum paid parental leave scheme. So I think the shape and structure of a incoming Coalition government is very clear.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Leigh chooses, out of the list of slogans, the \u201cOur Plan\u201d booklet. Is her question sharp and specific enough? She opines that the booklet contains largely \u201caspirations\u201d not \u201dconcrete plans\u201d (ostensibly what this interview is aimed at rectifying to some extent). The logic here is on track. Here was an instant opportunity to become very specific, to press Abbott on actual \u201cplans\u201d. But here begins the dance between the two around the semantics of \u201cplans\u201d versus \u201ccommitments\u201d.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Again Sales chooses a generalised \u201cflourish question\u201d based on \u201cmisleading Australians\u201d thereby subverting any real forensic enquiry around specifics.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"background:#ffff99;\"><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><strong>LEIGH SALES:<\/strong> You mentioned your document Our Plan &#8211; Real Solutions for all Australians, but it&#8217;s largely made up of aspirations not actual concrete plans. Are you misleading Australians when you say that you have a comprehensive plan? <\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Abbott sidesteps the question and reverts to very generalised coalition claims including \u201ceveryone understands\u201d and conflates \u201cplans\u201d and \u201ccommitments\u201d quite effectively<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"background:#ffff99;\"><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><strong>TONY ABBOTT:<\/strong> Well, as I said, there are some 50 specific commitments that we&#8217;ve made and I think everyone understands that if they do change the government, we will abolish the carbon tax, abolish the mining tax, get the budget back in the black, stop the boats, build things like the East-West Link here in Melbourne, the Pacific Highway duplication, the WestConnex project. We will have further commitments to make obviously on things like the Bruce Highway. I think people understand this, but above all else, what they understand is that if they want decent economic management, if they want to make sure that Australia keeps its triple A rating, if they want a pathway back to surplus, they do need to change the government.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Sales seizes upon the \u201cpathway back to surplus\u201d claim from the end of his answer. She is more forceful and starts to tackle the \u201cplan\u201d versus \u201caspiration\u201d or \u201ccommitment\u201d conflation by Abbott.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">But, as always, precise language counts. Should Sales have used a \u201cyou just said \u2026\u201d form instead of \u201cBut when you say something like \u2026\u201d form which removes the precision and targeting of his claim.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"background:#ffff99;\"><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><strong>LEIGH SALES:<\/strong> But when you say something like, &#8220;We&#8217;ll get the budget back in black,&#8221; that&#8217;s an aspiration, that&#8217;s no actually a plan. How will you get the budget back in black when we&#8217;re talking about deficits of tens of billions of dollars? <\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Abbott further conflates \u201ccommitments\u201d and \u201cplans\u201d ignoring Sales\u2019 attempts at logic.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">He does give something quite specific albeit with a measure of ambiguity. Is he saying that the coalition target is to reduce the public service by 20,000? He bolsters that impression by mentioning a saving of $4 billion. His last sentence changes the thrust of the Sales\u2019 question from \u201chow will you get the budget \u2026\u201d back to \u201cwhere are your \u201cplans\u201d?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"background:#ffff99;\"><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><strong>TONY ABBOTT:<\/strong> We&#8217;ve already said that there are certain commitments that this government has made that we won&#8217;t go ahead with. We won&#8217;t go ahead with the so-called Schoolkids Bonus because that&#8217;s a cash splash with borrowed money with nothing to do with education. We won&#8217;t be proceeding with the superannuation low income offset because it&#8217;s funded by the mining tax, which is raising no money. We will, by natural attrition, reduce the size of the Commonwealth public sector payroll, because that&#8217;s 20,000 more now than it was in 2007. That&#8217;s about $4 billion over the forward estimates. We won&#8217;t have $6.5 billion worth of border protection blowouts because we will change policy to stop the boats. So, I think there&#8217;s plenty out there, Leigh. <\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">From that list, Sales raises the $70 billion potential savings implicitly required by the coalition citing shadow treasurer, Joe Hockey<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"background:#ffff99;\"><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><strong>LEIGH SALES:<\/strong> All of that&#8217;s a lot short of about $70 billion, which is where Joe Hockey put the potential savings you&#8217;d have to find.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Surely, this is a mistake by Sales? If ever there was a moment to interrupt (a technique so criticized by many of her detractors on social media), this is it. <\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\">\u201c<span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">What is the correct figure then, Mr Abbott? What is the precise size of the savings a coalition government is facing and planning for?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Then remarkably, Abbott zooms across the Tasman to use New Zealand as some kind of budgetary exemplar.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"background:#ffff99;\"><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><strong>TONY ABBOTT:<\/strong> Well, that&#8217;s not a correct figure. Yes, we do have to find significant savings, but it&#8217;s nothing like that figure. Nothing like that figure at all. And let&#8217;s look, if I may for a moment take you across the Tasman to New Zealand. The New Zealand National Government is on track to get total government spending down from 35 to just 30 per cent of GDP without savage cuts by two things. First, they&#8217;ve made changes that have promoted economic growth, and second, they have religiously guarded against additional new spending. And that&#8217;s where this government has gone so wrong. Every day we have ministers talking about difficulties with the revenue and every day the Prime Minister is out there announcing billions in new spending.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Again Sales uses Abbott\u2019s claim to challenge its underpinnings. However, it is only a brief assertion with no clear, forensic challenging question attached.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"background:#ffff99;\"><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><strong>LEIGH SALES:<\/strong> But you&#8217;ve brought in the international comparison. Labor&#8217;s public social spending as a percentage of GDP is below the OECD average, it&#8217;s below New Zealand. Government debt in Australia as a percentage of GDP is also lower than virtually every other developed nation. When you look at the stats and the international comparisons, Australia&#8217;s spending and debt is certainly not excessive. <\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Abbott uses the absence of an actual question to introduce another detail, sticking to his New Zealand reference. This is obfuscation in the raw.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"background:#ffff99;\"><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><strong>TONY ABBOTT:<\/strong> Well, let&#8217;s not forget that New Zealand doesn&#8217;t have state governments and we do have state governments, and sure, the Commonwealth looks alright in isolation against New Zealand, but throw in state governments and I&#8217;m afraid the situation is quite different.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Sales re-asserts her point but again it now desperately needs a strong direct question to Abbott to elicit something clearer and more informative. It is another <\/span><\/span><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><i>statement <\/i><\/span><\/span><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">with no <\/span><\/span><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><i>question<\/i><\/span><\/span><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">. That\u2019s two in a row.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"background:#ffff99;\"><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><strong>LEIGH SALES<\/strong>: But my point is internationally our levels of debt and our levels of spending are not excessive. <\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">It&#8217;s another gift for Abbott. He uses the easy opportunity to peddle another political claim. At this point in the interview, there is hardly any pressure on Abbott at all to answer relevant and important questions. He is cruising. Sales is looking for handholds but she is still suffering from her ineffective opening gambit. Time is ticking and each second elapsed in this style is strongly to Abbott\u2019s advantage, as he now demonstrates by ignoring yet again the occurrence of the GFC.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">He even manages a Whitlam mention to drive home the point of Labor economic incompetence\u201d<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"background:#ffff99;\"><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><strong>TONY ABBOTT:<\/strong> Well I don&#8217;t believe that is a fair statement, if I may say so, Leigh. The fact is we do have lower debt than some countries, but that&#8217;s because we had no debt, no debt, back in 2007 thanks to the good work first of the Hawke-Keating government, but then the Howard-Costello government. Now, debt has increased more rapidly as a percentage of GDP under this government than at any time since modern accounting records were first kept back in 1970. So, the expansion of debt under this government is worse than Whitlam.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Sales uses her research to challenge Abbott, but again no question. That is three in a row in a major accountability interview. One has to ask the basic question: did Sales have a clear idea of WHAT SHE WANTED TO FIND OUT?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Again, a small language form point but it matters. Sales, certainly in this interview, uses \u201csoftened\u201d forms of words such as \u201cWell, if you want to talk about \u2026\u201d. Would a blunter more direct form be better and shift the dynamic, like <\/span><\/span><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\">\u201c<span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">You claim fiscal profligacy \u2026\u201d<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"background:#ffff99;\"><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><strong>LEIGH SALES<\/strong>: Well if you want to talk about fiscal profligacy, the IMF has looked at 200 years of government financial records across 55 leading economies and it identified only two periods of irresponsible spending in Australia in recent years and they were both during the Howard years.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Again, inevitably, the opposition leader exploits the absence of the pressure of a real forensic question to answer his own question by to extolling &nbsp;surpluses under the Howard government.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"background:#ffff99;\"><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><strong>TONY ABBOTT:<\/strong> Well, the interesting thing about the Howard Government is that the Howard Government delivered surpluses in 11 of its last 11 budgets. So, 10 out of 11 surpluses for the Howard Government and over the life of the Howard Government we averaged surpluses of almost one per cent of GDP. The last Labor surplus was back in 1989. That was the last Labor surplus. And so far, Treasurer Swan has given us the four biggest deficits in Australian history.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Sales ignores the answer and cites an opinion or critique from former coalition treasurer, Peter Costello. It has a slight non-sequitur feel about it at this juncture. And moving from Costello\u2019s opinion to a question based on an assumption is thin. Again, the question lies at the weaker end of forensic and is very general: \u201cis that the sort of approach \u2026?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">We are well into the interview. Nothing has really happened yet. The process seems disjointed. The effectiveness of the exchange is clearly suffering from very generalised questions where policy specifics are required and using statements instead of questions.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"background:#ffff99;\"><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><strong>LEIGH SALES:<\/strong> In the memoirs of the former Treasurer Peter Costello, he writes of you, &#8220;&#8230; never one to be held back by the financial consequences of decisions. He had grandiose plans for public expenditure.&#8221; Is that the sort of approach Australia needs in a Prime Minister when we have a predicted decade or so of budget deficits? <\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Abbott again enjoys the easy ride and defuses criticism of his fiscal approach deftly while adding a sting about \u201ccost effectiveness evaluation\u201d.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"background:#ffff99;\"><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><strong>TONY ABBOTT:<\/strong> Well obviously when I was the Health Minister it was important to invest appropriately in new treatments, in medical research and so on. The interesting thing about the kind of proposals that I put forward as Health Minister is that they were all subject to rigorous cost-effectiveness evaluation. That&#8217;s the beauty of PBS and Medicare spending of the Commonwealth under our system: it&#8217;s all subject to rigorous cost-effectiveness evaluation. And frankly, if it does pass cost-effectiveness tests, mostly it&#8217;s worth doing. The problem is that none of the big spending of this government has been subject to serious cost-effectiveness evaluation.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Well that didn\u2019t go anywhere, so Sales leaps back to an earlier Abbott answer regarding \u201cOur Plan\u201d. She asks a clear, relevant, reasonably specific question at last. Unfortunately, so many of these political interviews are littered with passives. A verb in the passive voice is shorn, by definition, of the agent of an action and much loved by politicians because clear accountability is submerged. Surely, interviewers in an accountability interview, especially with the putative next Prime Minister of the country, would do better to use an active voice wherever possible. It makes a difference!<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\">\u201c<span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Are you not clearly contradicting that \u201clower taxes\u201d policy by your promise to impose a 1.5 percent levy \u2026?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"background:#ffff99;\"><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><strong>LEIGH SALES:<\/strong> You spoke earlier about your document Our Plan and it includes the statement that, &#8220;We have an economic plan for Australia, a plan to lower taxes to stimulate economic growth.&#8221; Isn&#8217;t that promise contradicted by your policy to impose a 1.5 per cent levy on big business to fund a maternity leave scheme?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Sales struck a sliver of gold here. Abbott is forced into the old \u201c I hear what you are saying \u2026 \u201cline.&nbsp;<\/span><\/span><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">The key words here are \u201cno net increase in tax\u201d.This is the first sniff of news.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Abbottt wraps himself in caveats. This could have been a turning point. The content was significant. The dynamic had shifted. The question was specific. And further questions were on the verge of clarifying one of Abbott\u2019s big \u201ccommitments\u201d, one much criticised by his own side of politics. Rich pickings on offer&#8230;<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"background:#ffff99;\"><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><strong>TONY ABBOTT<\/strong>: I hear what you&#8217;re saying, Leigh, and I know that there are some people who are unhappy about that element of our policy. But let&#8217;s never forget that we are abolishing the carbon tax, we&#8217;re abolishing the mining tax and what we want to do is have a modest reduction in company tax that will mean that for big businesses, there is no net increase in tax, despite the paid parental leave levy and of course small business will get a company tax cut and a paid parental leave without having to pay the levy.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Sales does press Abbott further. Slightly. This is where a tighter, sharper less general, abstract question was needed.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"background:#ffff99;\"><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><strong>LEIGH SALES:<\/strong> So can we clarify: will it be fully offset for big businesses? <\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Sales seeks \u201cclarification\u201d but we as citizens are left with less clarity. In a few words, Abbott elbows himself some more wiggle room in relation to paid parental leave.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"background:#ffff99;\"><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><strong>TONY ABBOTT:<\/strong> Well, my hope &#8211; and we can&#8217;t finalise the fiscal position, we can&#8217;t finalise the timings of these initiatives until we&#8217;ve seen the pre-election fiscal outlook and I fear that that will be much worse than the Government is currently letting on. My hope is that we are able to introduce paid parental leave at the same time as we have an offsetting company tax cut.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">There are no follow-ups. Suddenly, Sales jumps again. Abbott was seemingly much better prepared for this interview with Sales both in terms of lines and talking points and how to anticipate and deal with her themes and questions.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">If there was going to be one certainty, Sales would ask about the NSW O\u2019Farrell government\u2019s signing up to the Gillard government\u2019s Gonski plan. One can imagine Abbott\u2019s minders discussing what Sales might ask and how.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">As it turned out, Sales chose a very weak question form that lay totally in the realm of predictability. Again, very general with truck size gaps to drive through and the use of \u201cwhy\u201d which is the weakest and most open-ended of the traditional journalistic interrogatives.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">There seems to be little evidence of exactly what Sales was wanting to find out here. Was it not time to forensically enquire about the DETAILS of Gonski? Press Abbott on key aspects and details? More clearly gauge where he actually stood. Examine his values around education especially around a \u201cneeds based approach\u201d. Again, a rich vein to mine?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Sales chose the more political rather than policy aspect. Or weaving the two together.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"background:#ffff99;\"><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><strong>LEIGH SALES:<\/strong> Let&#8217;s turn to education. If Barry O&#8217;Farrell, the Liberal leader of the largest state, thinks that the Gonski plan is a good idea, then why doesn&#8217;t the federal Liberal leader? <\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Sales let\u2019s Abbott get away with the cheeky avoidance in the beginning of his answer. This is another clear invitation to intervene, engage and challenge. That\u2019s her job. What we get is more obfuscation and avoidance naturally and more precious seconds slipping by.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"background:#ffff99;\"><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><strong>TONY ABBOTT:<\/strong> Well, look, it&#8217;s too early to say exactly what the Gonski plan is. The Prime Minister hasn&#8217;t really come clean. We don&#8217;t know all the details of what was agreed between herself and Barry O&#8217;Farrell. Look, I&#8217;m sure Barry believes that this is in the best interests of NSW and if the Prime Minister can deliver on it, fine, but the Prime Minister has a very poor record of actually delivering, a really hopeless record of actually delivering. This is a government which is great at making promises, but hopeless at keeping them.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Another very predictable but fair question from Sales. Still no real pressure on Abbott.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"background:#ffff99;\"><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><strong>LEIGH SALES:<\/strong> Well Barry O&#8217;Farrell obviously has some confidence that this promise will be delivered on. Now that his government has signed a deal with the Commonwealth, is that a deal that you will honour? <\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">This next passage from Abbott is truly remarkable. If Sales had done her job better earlier, by now the opposition leader would be severely circumscribed and much more wary making these statements. What he is actually saying is \u2018education is a drag on the economy \u2013 not an investment\u2019 (to say nothing of educational equity). This debate has been going on for years. Gonski is all about these issues and ideologies. For Abbott to slide so easily by without strong challenge is one of the real disgraces of this interview.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">If \u201cthe existing system is not broken\u201d as Abbott claims, what on earth have the education and Gonski debate been about?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Sales doesn\u2019t even flinch when Abbott avers: \u201ceverything right now, Leigh, has to be tested against that framework: how is it going to help us get back to surplus? How is it gonna make our economy more productive?\u201d<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">I suppose, by default, we do hear this statement of \u201cvalues\u201d however generalised and undefended. Slim pickings?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"background:#ffff99;\"><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><strong>TONY ABBOTT<\/strong>: What we&#8217;ve said is we want to wait and see whether the Prime Minister can bring about a nationally consistent approach. And we&#8217;re not prepared to commit at this point in time to anything short of that. Let&#8217;s face it: the existing system is not broken. I don&#8217;t say it can&#8217;t be improved. I don&#8217;t say that we wouldn&#8217;t under perfect circumstances want to put more money into schools, but these aren&#8217;t perfect circumstances. Our triple A credit rating is at risk if there&#8217;s not a path back to surplus, and frankly, everything right now, Leigh, has to be tested against that framework: how is it going to help us get back to surplus? How is it gonna make our economy more productive?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">So that is the education policy part of the interview done with.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">I simply do not understand what prompts Sales, after all that had preceded this point in a very flabby interview, to ask such a question as this. Again, what EXACTLY was she seeking to discover? It is very hard to discern. Is Sales becoming addicted to the flourish, the \u201csmart arse\u201d question form? If so, it is certainly hampering her effectiveness. <\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"background:#ffff99;\"><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><strong>LEIGH SALES:<\/strong> Before we go, in your own mind, what is the biggest hurdle to you becoming Prime Minister in September? <\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"background:#ffff99;\"><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><strong>TONY ABBOTT<\/strong>: Well it&#8217;s not about me, Leigh. It really isn&#8217;t. It&#8217;s got to be about our country. Now, &#8230;<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"background:#ffff99;\"><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><strong>LEIGH SALES:<\/strong> Well what&#8217;s the biggest hurdle, though? <\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">As he has demonstrated all through this interview, Abbott exploits Sales\u2019 lack of specific questioning and pressure to address narrower details and to seek values frameworks.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">We all had to sit and listen to Abbott\u2019s risible polemics about \u201cmilking incumbency, demonising the opposition\u201d etc. Well, as John Howard would say at such moments \u2013 \u201cHullo?\u201d<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Perhaps at this wind down phase of the interview, a hearty laugh from Sales to underscore the absurdity of Abbott\u2019s replies would have been appropriate?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"background:#ffff99;\"><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><strong>TONY ABBOTT<\/strong>: Well it&#8217;s never easy to win an election from opposition, and as I say, this is a pretty hopeless government, but they&#8217;re pretty clever at politics and I suspect every day they will be out there a.) milking incumbency, b.) demonising the Opposition, c.) mortgaging the future in the hope of buying a few votes and d.) booby trapping the future in the hope that an incoming government will be saddled with a whole lot of commitments that make managing the budget very, very difficult indeed. It&#8217;s a pretty low and dishonourable government that way, but I think we are more than up to it.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Right in the dying moments (unfortunately), Sales conjures a slight sense of challenge around Abbott\u2019s perceived character as a \u201chard man\u201d.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">But examine the exact form and language in the question. What real force does it have? Isn\u2019t the form, \u201dIs it a problem for you \u2026\u201d a weak one?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"background:#ffff99;\"><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><strong>LEIGH SALES:<\/strong> You yourself have written in your book Battlelines about the fact that you were the hard man of the Howard Government, you know, the headkicker, if you like. Is it a problem for you that Australians think that the hard man that we got to know over the Howard years is going to be a hard man as Prime Minister? <\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Abbott\u2019s reply is pregnant with possibilities for further enquiry. But no, it\u2019s over and another almost totally wasted thirteen minutes of crucial interview time has ebbed away.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"background:#ffff99;\"><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><strong>TONY ABBOTT<\/strong>: Leigh, look, I accept that over the years, and I&#8217;ve been in public life for two decades at least, well really more than that one way or another now, and a lot of people have come to a lot of conclusions. But I also think that Australians are pretty fair-minded and they accept that people can grow if they move into a new position. I&#8217;d like to think that I have grown as Opposition Leader and I am confident that I can grow as Prime Minister should the public give me that extraordinary honour.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Sales, to match her overall very careful and largely deferential tone (compared to a more angular approach with Gillard) \u201cbooks\u201d up Abbott for further interviews as the election campaign unfolds. It borders on the emetic.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"background:#ffff99;\"><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><strong>LEIGH SALES<\/strong>: Mr Abbott, thank you very much. We&#8217;ll look forward to seeing you again over the course of this election year.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"background:#ffff99;\"><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><strong>TONY ABBOTT<\/strong>: Thank you so much, Leigh.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">What can we say about such an empty interview? Has Sales personally or the 730 program generally lost their knack to scrutinize the man (and woman) competing for the prime ministership? If so, what veiled process has brought us to this? What has happened to Sales\u2019 previous admirable abilities to forge and ask, in context, sharp, forensic, confronting questions on our behalf? And to deploy the right tone and weight of personality and to be flexible with those choices on the run?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Where was the clear evidence of a pre-planned strategy for this interview from Sales and her team? If they had one, it went to water early on.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">In short, what is actually happening behind the scenes at 730 to leech this program of its effectiveness just when we need it most to do its fourth estate job effectively without fear or favour? <\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Has the constant drumbeat of partisan attack on the ABC generally and Sales personally ultimately had the \u201cdesired effect\u201d?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Has Abbott\u2019s tactic of largely refusing to appear on serious ABC current affairs programs served to skew the whole process and context of these accountability interviews away from the crucial content more into an exciting hoped for blood sport?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">Finally, what has happened to their \u201cnews sense\u201d at ABC 730? At least two clear, news angles emerged: around the Paid Parental Leave Scheme, its exact timing and the offsets for large companies and around the future funding of the Gonski reforms. <\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">This interview was strongly promoted as an overview of Abbott\u2019s policies against a background of the worrying paucity of clear policy detail from the coalition in this election lead-up period. Yet when the clear opportunities to winkle those details out arrived, the ball was dropped. <\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">How very disappointing.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\">I look forward to reading and responding to&nbsp;<\/span><\/span><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><i>your<\/i><\/span><\/span><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"> comments.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>Read More:<\/p>\n<p><a title=\"Permanent Link to Morrison\u2019s brick wall on how he\u2019ll stop the&nbsp;boats\" href=\"http:\/\/australiansforhonestpolitics.wordpress.com\/2013\/03\/28\/morrisons-brick-wall-on-how-hell-stop-the-boats\/\" rel=\"bookmark\">Morrison\u2019s brick wall on how he\u2019ll stop the&nbsp;boats<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a title=\"Permanent Link to Anatomy of Sales -v- Gillard&nbsp;interview\" href=\"http:\/\/australiansforhonestpolitics.wordpress.com\/2013\/03\/26\/anatomy-of-sales-v-gillard-interview\/\" rel=\"bookmark\">Anatomy of Sales -v- Gillard&nbsp;interview<\/a><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><b>Peter Clarke is the author of <\/b><\/span><\/span><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><i><b>The Interview: A Hollow Dance Looking for New Moves <\/b><\/i><\/span><\/span><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><b>in <\/b><\/span><\/span><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><i><b> Australian Journalism Today<\/b><\/i><\/span><\/span><span style=\"color:#1a1a1a;\"><span style=\"font-family:Helvetica, serif;\"><b> edited by Matthew Ricketson, published by Palgrave McMillan.<\/b><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<!-- AddThis Advanced Settings generic via filter on the_content --><!-- AddThis Share Buttons generic via filter on the_content -->","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Interview with @leighsales about to air on @abc730. Good to chat about our Real Solutions plan for Australia #abc730 pic.twitter.com\/nnHOYu2FGF &mdash; Tony Abbott (@TonyAbbottMHR) April 24, 2013 By Peter Clarke, April 25, 2013 Late last year, Leigh Sales interviewed Tony Abbott live on the 730 Report. Sales was sharp and persistent, Abbott poorly prepared and [&hellip;]<!-- AddThis Advanced Settings generic via filter on get_the_excerpt --><!-- AddThis Share Buttons generic via filter on get_the_excerpt --><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":8,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_is_tweetstorm":false,"jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","enabled":false}}},"categories":[3434,3402,57,66,21,26,38],"tags":[2587,88,292,2576,470],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p3t0mw-St","jetpack_likes_enabled":false,"jetpack-related-posts":[],"jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/archive.nofibs.com.au\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3377"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/archive.nofibs.com.au\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/archive.nofibs.com.au\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/archive.nofibs.com.au\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/8"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/archive.nofibs.com.au\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=3377"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/archive.nofibs.com.au\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3377\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/archive.nofibs.com.au\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=3377"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/archive.nofibs.com.au\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=3377"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/archive.nofibs.com.au\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=3377"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}